Curiosity DID NOT Kill the Cat!

"Curiosity DID NOT Kill the Cat!"

My Job Here is Done™ Transcript (for general use only – machine-generated and it may not be accurate.) 

Dave (00:01) Hey, I don't ever want to have a cat as an office pet.

Kelli (00:04) What would you rather have, an Orangutang or a Wildebeest?

Dave (00:07) They're cute, but no, a simple dog will do ... Just no cat.

Kelli (00:11) Why are you so opposed to having a cat? With all due respect to all the cat lovers out there?

Dave (00:16) Because I love being curious and creating curiosity, and that's a problem for those damn cats.

Kelli (00:22) Oh, come on. You know curiosity didn't really kill the cat ... Like a real cat, right?

Dave (00:30) I personally don't want to take any chances. And hey, you out there in Internet podcast land listening to this. If you have a cat that can hear this podcast, please, I'm begging you. Go put it in the basement for about the next 20 minutes. Take no chances.

Kelli (00:48) I work with the dork! Pray for me!!

Intro (00:51) Hi, I'm Dave, and I've been starting and running businesses all my life. And I'm Kelli, working for the man like a dog for decades. And you are YOU!  The driven career professional, clawing your way up the ladder of success. Maybe running your own business. The next 20 minutes or so is just for you. Welcome to my job here is done.

Dave (01:16) Hey there. Thanks for joining us today. I am Dave.

Kelli (01:19) And I'm Kelli, and welcome to the podcast. Before we get started, just a quick reminder that you can learn more about the podcast, listen to all the previous episodes, read our bonus blog material, and interact with us at our website. My job here is done dot com.

Dave (01:33) ... And on social media at myjob podcast, this is the one about creating curiosity.

Kelli (01:42) Like, hey, Dave, come here. Look at the cap on the top of this water bottle I have in my hand.

Dave (01:47) You think I'd actually fall for that old trick?

Kelli (01:50) You'd be surprised how clever I can be to make you fall for just about anything I want.

Dave (01:55) While Kelli prides herself on her trickery skills, she's making the point here. If you can create the right type of curiosity in what you say, in what you write, or in the actions that you take, you can get people to do exactly what you want them to do.

Kelli (02:12) You can use that skill for fun. Like when Dave looked at the cap of the water bottle, which I loosened. And then while his adorable Dave face was trying to see what I asked him to look at closely on the cap, I squeezed the bottle and all the water shot out in his face. It was super funny.

Dave (02:28) Super funny. Super funny.

Kelli (02:30) I wish we were on YouTube so you could see it.

Dave (02:32) Yeah. Well, after drying off and waiting for 20 minutes while Kelli the Clown stopped laughing ...

Kelli (02:37) ... We thought that was very funny ...

Dave (02:38) ...what a great way to illustrate our simple theory on marketing.

Kelli (02:43) (A tinking sound is heard) What was that? I think we can just cut it out. I'm going to keep going. Okay. And not just marketing in the sense of advertising and branding, but how to create curiosity in everything you do, especially when it comes to career advancement and business growth.

Dave (02:58) Creating curiosity is a base competency that anybody can learn and use to their advantage. In fact, I'm going to try to create curiosity for you in a moment to help keep you interested in listening through this short 20 minutes podcast.

Kelli (03:13) (A tinking sound is heard) There it is again. Did you hear that?

Dave (03:17) What are you hearing things?

Kelli (03:18) Very funny. Anyway, what is he going to say, in a quote-unquote moment? You may be asking? Did he just cunningly create some curiosity for you?

Dave (03:31) Insert evil laugh track here. It's time to break this down. Let's look at the power of curiosity and how to use it for good things and things that will help you help your employees and help your prospects and customers.

Kelli (03:46) (A tinking sound is heard) What's that sound?

Dave (03:47) What sound?

Kelli (03:48) That tink or something I keep hearing. Do you have something unmuted?

Dave (03:52) No, it's all good.

Kelli (03:53) Okay, curious, but moving on, I'm going to share something with you that's personal to us and also important to our goals for the podcast. We really want you to be continuously curious about what we're going to say next so that you don't get bored and tune out before the end of the podcast.

Dave (04:10) That's important for at least two reasons. One reason is that podcasts, including ours, are more valuable as a product or service if smart people like you listen to the whole thing, and if you're curious enough, you'll want to listen to the other episodes as well.

Kelli (04:26) And the second reason is we started a podcast so we could give back through stories and notions that create curiosity from what Dave and I learned over many years and hopefully help you to be more successful as a result.

Dave (04:38) Right. And if you like what you're hearing so far, we've got a segment coming up in this episode called Just One Question That You Won't Want to Miss.

Kelli (04:48) What exactly do we mean by creating curiosity in everything you do?

Dave (04:52) First, here's what we think is a good definition for the term curiosity. Curiosity is simply the brain's exploration and sleuthing mechanism.

Kelli (05:03) Think of the brain's power of curiosity like you'd. Think of the power that the brain's hunger mechanism has on you. Curiosity can be triggered with sound, sight, smell, just like hunger. But unlike hunger, you can go for many days without getting curious, and it won't kill you. Lack of curiosity is not fatal.

Dave (05:22) But just as your brain triggers an automatic hunger response to lack of food, your brain also triggers an automatic and subconscious curiosity response when you're presented with a certain type of choice that you have to make or an action that you could take. Curiosity helps guide you to the best response suited for you at the time.

Kelli (05:44) But as you'll soon hear in our Just One Question segment, guest expert Patrick Byers has something to say about what can block your brain's curiosity pathway and stop you dead in your tracks. (A tinking sound is heard) Now it's happening to me!

Dave (05:58) Okay, so now that we have defined curiosity in the context of this thought bubble we're in, let's look at how we can use curiosity in everything we do to help propel our career and our business forward.

Kelli (06:12) Well, first, we have to go directly to a chapter in Marketing 101 with a short story.

Dave (06:17) Now, even if you're not a marketer or in marketing, what we're about to talk about definitely applies to you. (A tinking sound is heard) A long time ago, I was having dinner with a friend who was a certified marketing Ninja. His name was Willie Leonardo. He had more advertising awards given to him than Don Draper had in Mad Men.

Kelli (06:39) Wow.

Dave (06:39) And if you've seen that US TV program Madman, you'd appreciate the Don Draper reference that I'm making.

Kelli (06:46) Back when you had that dinner, were you interested specifically in marketing and trying to learn more?

Dave (06:51) No, not really. I was and still am a generalist when it comes to growing a business. I've never really tried to be an expert in any particular Department, but to be successful, I needed to know - and so do you-  know enough about HR, finance, accounting, sales, and marketing to help guide those departments with the expertise that I really did have? And that expertise was uncovering competitive strategies for the business.

Kelli (07:18) But I know you well enough to see that your voice perks up and you get all excited when you're working on marketing projects.

Dave (07:24) Yes, and I love me some good marketing. And my friend at dinner was a rock star at it. At dinner that night, you've got to kind of picture the setting with a bunch of entrepreneurial friends at a small round table in kind of a dimly lit, old-world-looking restaurant. I really don't think they changed the classic Italian decor in there since they opened 30 years earlier. We were all having our favorite drink. We were relaxed, laughing and chatting, but all the food cravings. And I got to do the Mamma Mia because it really fits here. Oh, please, Mama Mia. That's a spicy meat-ta-ball, the sensational smell of what had to be an authentic Italian grandma cooking for us in the kitchen was just overwhelming. My marketing friend Willie was asking a lot of questions about how each of us at the table were growing our businesses. And you can imagine the various answers that we all had. It's kind of a potpourri of entrepreneurial batter. But all that talk, the thoughts and challenges we spoke of, all of them, amazingly, seemed to refocus back into one area that we all had of concern. We were all worried about marketing.

Dave (08:37) Are we doing it right? Where do we improve? We wondered if the old adage, Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted. The trouble is, I don't know which half, that was uttered over 100 years ago by Philadelphia retailer John Wannamaker, and we all wondered, Is that true? Today? The discussion that we were having led me to ask Willie how he defined the complex art and science of marketing, and a simple and elegant answer stopped all of us dead in our tracks, he said: as complicated as it may seem, and it's certainly not an easy job. Marketing boils down to simply creating a continuous flow of curiosity to lead your prospect to value.

Kelli (09:24) If you reflect on that for a moment, those simple words really speak volumes about how you can leverage that part of the brain that deals with curiosity to help you grow your business or your career. Let's stay on the marketing part of creating curiosity for a bit. Then we'll explore the ways you and I, as individuals advancing our careers, can use creating curiosity to our advantage. (A tinking sound is heard) Listen, what's that?

Dave (09:52) Whatever. When you want to sell a product or service to someone, you have to do a lot of convincing, both consciously and in their subconscious, in order to convince them to be comfortable enough to take the chance on what you or your company is selling.

Kelli (10:08) Just putting clever words or slogans on a web page or speaking them during a sales call doesn't do a damn thing to move the needle toward a sale. Sure, you can argue that your brand is important and it is. But you might be spending too much time picking out colors and logos and then noodling more time over puffery statements that make you feel good because you're simply doing something puffery.

Dave (10:31) I love that word.

Kelli (10:33) Puffery is actually a legal term used to describe a false or exaggerated statement in advertising. We see puffery way too often in product and service marketing, like we make the best car on the road, cleans floors like nothing on the planet, or the more subtle don't make a mistake by not buying from the leader. Click here. It will change your life.

Dave (10:56) Yeah, next on the hit list and much better than puffery, but not ideal is Factsplaining.

Kelli (11:02) Factsplaining? Is that like mansplaining?

Dave (11:06) Well, I'm smart enough to explain to you that I will not fall into that trap for sure. Factsplaining in marketing is the common act of listing all of your product or service facts, often with a little explanation just in case the fact wasn't clear enough. Like 100% free of radioactive material. This ensures that you won't glow in the dark, or eight out of ten dentists prefer to use our toothpaste because dentists know what makes great toothpaste. Or finally, something like our data center has triple redundant power so you can have three times the confidence that you won't have a power problem.

Kelli (11:49) Factsplaning is an easy trap to fall into because facts by themselves may seem boring, so we naturally feel a little explanation will help. We want our marketing engine to spruce it up a little bit. This usually just wastes consonants and vowels and does little to entice a prospect to take the next step in your marketing funnel.

Dave (12:08) This isn't a chat about how to market today, it's more of a chat about how to invoke an emotion. And the examples we just used don't create any curiosity. We're going to show you how to change that right now.

Kelli (12:23) Find and delete all puffery, gather the most important facts, know your prospect well, and then combine truth with curiosity.

Dave (12:30) So let's change it up a little bit. Let's try this instead of just Factsplaining. If you could show how a product that is 100% radiation-free is able to work as well or better as the other brands, would you be interested? (A tinking sound is heard) 

Kelli (12:47) Toothpaste isn't exciting, right? We agree. But Dentists must have a healthy reason they chose our brand of toothpaste eight times out of ten. You should know more about that. Click here. (A tinking sound is heard) 

Dave (13:00) And in our last example, it may seem like an overkill to have triple power redundancy like we have in our data center, but you'll think differently. After you read our white paper on cascading power faults. (A tinking sound is heard) 

Kelli (13:14) You're likely saying, it's not just that easy, right? And you'd be right. But there is usually only one big elephant in the room that you need to understand to make it easy. And we have that answer.

Dave (13:26) Now it's time for our new segment where we search high and low, coast to coast and around the planet to find an expert, someone with super-smart powers who both impress us and have impressed others. These unicorns are very hard to find, but they do exist. And we invite these smart people, unicorns, to be a quick guest on the podcast. We keep it short and sweet in a segment that we call "Just One Question."

Kelli (13:55) Today we're thrilled to have Patrick Byers on the show. Patrick is the founder of Outsource Marketing, a company that pioneered marketing outsourcing back in 1997, he instructed the Integrated Marketing Communications Program at the University of Washington, and he's recognized as a marketing legend by the Puget Sound American Marketing Association. His customers, past and present, read like a who's who in business Microsoft, Starbucks, T Mobile, the US Department of Labor, and a ton of others. He's also our friend, and we use him and his company often.

Dave (14:27) And notice we said company, not a business. So kudos on that accomplishment.

Kelli (14:33) Hi, Patrick. Welcome to the podcast.

Patrick Byers (14:35) Hi, Kelli. Hi, Dave. Thanks for having me here today. Honored to be here.

Dave (14:39) Patrick good to have you. We're talking about creating curiosity in both advertising and marketing, but also in other ways to help grow your own careers because I think we can use it in both cases. So we're looking for the biggest barriers we need to know about how to use curiosity effectively. So just one question. When a person sees, hears, or experiences a call to action, such as a request to click on an advertising link or adding the required email address to get to that interesting white paper, what is the first emotion they usually have to deal with.

Patrick Byers (15:16) I know the emotion we'd like them to have, but unfortunately, I don't think it's that emotion at all. I think most of the time its cynicism and it's well deserved.

Kelli (15:26) Patrick, why do you think potential customers are so cynical these days?

Patrick Byers (15:30) We're cynical because we've grown up in an era of cynicism already. Think about it for a second. If somebody has a call to action, the first thing you think is they're trying to sell me something that doesn't really fit.

Patrick Byers (15:42) Nobody wants to be sold anything you want to make a decision to buy, right? Right.

Kelli (15:46) Exactly right.

Patrick Byers (15:47) So they're cynical, but we also live in a world of Enron and WorldCom and Halliburton and Deutsche Bank and baby powders that are giving people cancer. so of course, you're going to be cynical.

Kelli (16:02) in your opinion, what are the challenges to break through that cynicism?

Patrick Byers (16:06) I just think the big thing is that marketers have yet to accept the challenge we have before us. The only way you can really break through is to know your customers better than the competition. And the way you know your customers better is by slowing down so you can ultimately go faster.

Dave (16:23) We should assume then that cynicism is the big elephant in the room?

Patrick Byers (16:27) I think it's the biggest filter. I think it's that first filter that you have to get through. Interesting book, everyone knows Stephen Covey and The Seven Habits of Highly Successful People, everybody's heard of that. Some people don't realize his son is probably a better author, a better writer than he is. His name is Stephen M. R. Covey, and he wrote a book called The Speed of Trust, and I'm going to save you the 380 pages or however long it is. Maybe it's longer. And I'm going to tell you that basically, it boils down to this. You have to be able to prove competence and character instantly (finger snapping sound) 

Dave (17:02) So is this a good place to mix in the theory of creating curiosity, to try to overcome that?

Patrick Byers (17:08) Yeah, absolutely. And when you talk about creating curiosity, I know that we had talked about this before, and it's probably one of the reasons why I enjoy chatting with you, Dave, is that a lot of people don't appreciate it like you do, how important it is for you to create curiosity. Every single contact point, when we do the planning, we do a contact point evaluation. You walk in the front door and the mats are dirty, which sends a message. You pick up the phone and the person you can tell that they aren't smiling, that sends a message. It's a lot of nuance because it's about emotion. We make decisions based on emotion. We rationalize emotional decisions, whatever it is. The point is that each steppingstone along the way, you should earn the right to continue the conversation. It's just like good writing. That sentence has to pay off enough for them to read the next sentence. And that paragraph has to read off enough to read the next paragraph. And that paragraph needs to be good enough to lead off to that chapter. And that chapter needs to be good enough to lead to the full book.

Patrick Byers (18:11) You have to keep earning it. And it's the same thing in the relationship with the customer.

Kelli (18:15) Patrick, give yourself a plug. How can people learn more about you and your company?

Patrick Byers (18:21) Hey, thanks for asking. You can find my company at outsource marketing dot com. We've been around a long time, so we get to have that domain name, for me. I'm on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn. I'm everywhere. Just Patrick Byers. I'll probably come up first because I've been doing it for a while, just search Patrick Byers on Twitter if you want to do that. And of course, you can send a message from our website, and I'll get it as well. It'll end up with me if you want to reach me.

Dave (18:47) So how can you personally take advantage of the power of curiosity? Especially when you're not in marketing or branding a product or a service? (A tinking sound is heard) 

Kelli (18:56) Damn it. What is that sound you keep making? I see you pushing those Buttony things on the slidey contraption. What are you doing?

Dave (19:04) Are you wondering if that sound you're hearing is a clue to understanding the power of curiosity?

Kelli (19:10) Wait. I want to try something to see if you're just being a smart ass or if you're being clever. You just be quiet while I do a test. Creating curiosity at every opportunity you have can be a fundamental part of personal career success. (sad trombone sound is heard) All right, let me try this:  you know how important career success is to you. Would you like to see a unique way to easily improve your chances of success? Kelli (A tinking sound is heard) Okay!!  Curiosity mystery solved! I was hearing that sound every time there was a statement that created curiosity. I get it now.

Dave (19:44) Here are some examples of the using the power of curiosity to move forward in your own personal space...  You want to raise instead of saying:

Kelli (19:55) I've worked here for two years now I'm doing a great job. People tell me that I'm enthusiastic, loyal, ambitious. May I respectfully ask for a raise in pay?

Dave (20:05) There's nothing curious about that. It's a lot of factsplaining answers. Could easily be a quick close-down, like, we have to wait for the budget, or this is not a good time for that now.  Instead, try this:

Kelli (20:18) I wonder how the company could benefit from you and I speaking about my salary? I have some great information for you about the work I'm doing. (A tinking sound is heard) 

Dave (20:26) Now, that's curious, as the sound said, and it's hard to ignore. You have a better chance at a meeting, giving you another opportunity to create the next round of curiosity if you use that technique. Here's another. How about throwing your hat in the ring for a promotion? Classically, one would write a short note kind of like this:  I see there's an open position for the Director of Compliance. As you know, I am very qualified for that position, and I would love to explore the possibility of leading that Department.

Kelli (20:57) Once again, that note does not create curiosity, revise it with some personal, curious factsplaining like this: The director of Compliance position is very important to the company, right? What would that Department look like with me leading it? My hope is that we can talk about it. We both want to be right about this decision. (A tinking sound is heard) 

Dave (21:16) If I am the reader of that note, I would find it very difficult to blow it off without me sounding like a jerk. I'd take the meeting with that person, giving them yet another opportunity of piquing my curiosity. And here's one last example.

Kelli (21:30) You're getting the picture now, right?

Dave (21:32) You have a team that is failing to perform on an important project. They're all smart and can do the job, but it's just not gelling. You need to intervene as your ass is on the line too. And one way to handle it is to hold a meeting, get everybody in a room and say failure is not an option. We are being watched closely and we're running out of time. How can I help you successfully cross the finish line on time?

Kelli (21:58) All you're doing here is stating the obvious. There's nothing for the team to think about. You're just asking a question. Can I help? Which you've already surely tried.

Dave (22:07) So a better option would be to have the same meeting and recast your concerns with some curiosity thrown in. Hey guys, I'm wondering why this project isn't going as planned. It seems like you all have tried everything, so thank you very much. What if we just have to admit to leadership that we won't make the deadline and just see what happens? (A tinking sound is heard) 

Kelli (22:28) I can tell you that that would cause a long pause of uncomfortable silence in the room. Now everyone is curious about what leadership would do if the team failed to deliver. I would think this is not an option, and I bet the group starts thinking differently about the problem and the solution.

Dave (22:44) The old idiom Curiosity Killed the Cat is not nearly as accurate as Curiosity Attracted the Cat!

Kelli (22:53) The emotion of curiosity is very powerful and we often forget about it, and then we don't use it to our advantage. We hope you'll try adding a bit of curiosity in everything you do. We bet you'll see some incredibly better results.

Dave (23:08) Kelli, did we answer the question? How do you make someone curious?

Kelli (23:12) No. How do you do that?

Dave (23:14) I'll tell you tomorrow

Kelli (23:16) We'd like to thank Patrick Buyers from Outsource Marketing near Seattle, Washington, USA, for his wisdom and expertise today, you can learn more about him and his company in the Show Notes.

Dave (23:26) And thank you very much for listening. If you like our podcast, please tell a friend about us. And as we always say, it's just one friend or colleague you think would enjoy the content and the stories that we share. You can listen to My Job Here is Done anywhere and everywhere podcasts are available, and you can check out our website for the latest info on the show and how you can work with us (A tinking sound is heard) at My Job Here is done dot com.

Chuck Fresh (23:52) I'm the announcer guy and I sound as good as the story you just listened to. My Job Here is Done as a podcast production of 2PointOh LLC. Thank you and your awesome ears for listening. Want to get involved? Have your own special story to share? Tell us all about it and you might get some airtime just like me. Browse over to myjobhereisdone.com squish it all together into one word and look for the My Story link... Until next time ... My job here is done!