Won't You Be ... My Mentor

"... Won't you be ... My Mentor"

Transcript (for general use only – machine-generated and it may not be accurate)

Dave (00:00) It takes a village. Everybody needs a friend. It's lonely at the top. These are just a few of the sayings we use when describing a person who needs or wants a little extra help

Kelli (00:13) But asking for that help is often difficult. You may feel embarrassed, or maybe you're just introverted enough that it doesn't come easily to you

Dave (00:21) Yes. Asking for advice can be as awkward as your first junior high school dance. And for me, that was awkward. And giving advice can sometimes make you look like a ginormous asshole

Kelli (00:32) It doesn't have to be this hard

Dave (00:34) So would you be mine

Kelli (00:36) Could you be mine

Dave and Kelli singing (00:38) Won't you be my mentor

Intro (00:41) Hi! I'm Dave and I'm Kelli, and this is my job here is done. If you really want that next promotion or you're a rising star entrepreneur, we have some stories to tell that will absolutely help you. I've been starting and running businesses all my life. And I've worked for the man like a dog for decades. Together we'll share stories, ideas, and notions that will help you absolutely sore past that cruiser sitting next to you. And if you're grinding forward with your growing business, we know where the landmines are. Let's find them. Hey, it's only about 20 minutes. What do you have to lose? Nothing ... or everything

Dave (01:27) I'm Dave

Kelli (01:28) and I'm Kelli. And welcome to the podcast. Before we get started, just a quick reminder that you can learn more about the podcast, listen to all the previous episodes and interact with us at our website. myjobhereisdone.com

Dave (01:42) This is the one about mentoring and mentorship and how it sometimes is like asking for that first date

Kelli (01:47) You never know what to expect for an answer. But mentoring is a critical part of growth and we just don't use it enough. We think the reason why is that it has no ground rules. Let's make some

Dave (01:58) First let me ask you a question. Have you ever had a mentor?

Kelli (02:01) I have not had a designated mentor. I've had people who I've looked up to, who I tried to emulate in business. I observed their approach to things and how they conducted business, but I really have never had a mentor

Dave (02:17) Have you heard of any mentoring programs that you could take advantage of

Kelli (02:21) I believe that there is or was a program at work where you could be paired up with a mentor if you provided an area of interest. But that felt uncomfortable to me. First of all, I didn't know what type of person I would be matched up with, and I think an important part of having a mentor is having a good connection, a good dynamic. I didn't want to just be paired up with a stranger

Dave (02:48) Yeah. And how do you ask

Kelli (02:49) How do you even ask the question before you ask somebody if they want to take the relationship friendship to the next level, you have to have a base. So I think that's the same thing with asking for a mentor. You have to have some relationship established with that person, not just see them in the hallway at work and think they're successful. I think maybe I'd like them to be my mentor

Dave (03:14) Kelli can tell you that some people don't like to mentor. Some people who you think would be great mentors are actually people who would rather keep that to themselves. That's kind of their secret sauce

Kelli (03:27) I don't talk about that with the selfish mentor

Dave (03:30) Well, selfish or feeling as if there's some magic in what they do. And I've seen people say, hey, listen, I don't talk to other people, I don't give advice. I leave that to other people. Which begs the question, what if you ask somebody, hey, listen, would you mind mentoring me or can you give me some advice and they say, no, how do you handle that?

Kelli (03:50) So I never thought about that, that people would not be open to being a mentor. I would think that anybody who's successful or has a big fund of knowledge, lots of experience, would welcome sharing that with other people. It almost makes me think, what are they afraid of? Are they afraid that this person is going to rise up the ladder and overshadow them At some point

Dave (04:17) Those people, In a lot of cases, are holding it close to their vest. They feel it's their competitive advantage, right

Kelli (04:22) They're information hostages, right? They keep that information to themselves and don't share

Dave (04:27) And I think that's okay. But it doesn't help you get a mentor. It doesn't help the mentoring program. And I think that today mentoring and mentoring programs are taking a backseat to a lot of other things. And I think that we have an opportunity to change that. And I think we should change it because a lot of people can really use the advice of somebody who's been there done that got the T shirt

Kelli (04:52) And there's so many people out there that have a lot of experience and a lot of great information to share that's kind of what our whole shtick is here, right? That's what we're doing. We feel that we have things to share and we're happy to share them

Dave (05:06) And we hope it helps other people. So this is kind of mentoring without actually knowing you, you're listening to us right now, and we don't know you. We just know that if you're listening, you're interested. And if you listen again and again, you really are interested. And we must be doing a good job. We can measure that by looking at the number of listeners that listen to the podcast. How do you translate that in person when you're trying to judge whether or not the mentor is doing a good job or the mentor is following the advice and having good results from it

Dave (05:41) So I think one of the reasons why we don't have more mentoring and sadly, more mentoring programs in businesses, is because we don't have the ground rules to set it up properly. I think it's an awkwardness that causes it not to flourish. Like, who do you pick? Do you pick a friend? Is the friend going to just tell you what you want to hear or is the friend going to be brutally honest with you? And when they are brutally honest with you, you risk your friendship,

Kelli (06:10) Because you may be offended because you haven't set ground rules ahead of time.

Dave (06:14) Should you pick somebody that you don't know all that well, like your situation that you talked about earlier. There's a mentoring program. What do I do? I put my name up on the bulletin board and somebody comes along and swipes,.

Kelli (06:27) It's almost like mentoring match.com. So I'm looking for this. You have that. Let's match up and see if we can learn from each other. I guess there's some people that that would work for. I think it's up to the individual. For me, I like to have some sort of relationship or friendship that makes me feel comfortable stating what I'm looking for and what I think I need help with other people may be more comfortable with someone who they don't have a relationship with. That they feel they can be more open and not be judged and not fear that it's somehow going to affect their other relationship, which is a friendship, with that person

Dave (07:04) And I think there's a third type, and that is anonymous mentoring. So you have a question that you want to ask. It goes into a pool and it's answered by a number of people. And you take the advice that you think would work best for you. And there are forums that you can find on the Internet that kind of follow this guidance, and larger organizations will do them in slack channels or other methods of communication

Kelli (07:28) So I'm not familiar with this. Is this more like a situational mentoring

Dave (07:33) Yeah. This is more of. 've got this task. I've got this thing. I've got this worry. I've got this idea. What would you do to improve on it? It's more specific

Kelli (07:42) I see. So it's not like I want to get from point A to point B. Help me

Dave (07:47) I think that you have to have the classic mentoring relationship to do that. But that is also what we're talking about here. How do you start that? What's the best way to go about it where you are not going to offend each other in this very ,what needs to be open conversation, because if you said something to me like, Dave, I feel as if I am not a good listener and I need some advice on where that's going wrong. I've tried to self reflect and I haven't figured it out

Dave (08:17) And I say the reason why you're not a good listener is because you interrupt people all the time

Kelli (08:23) I'm sorry. Could you repeat that I wasn't listening. Sorry to interrupt

Dave (08:31) So do I take offense to that? I mean, literally somebody could. You're not a good listener because you're talking all the time. Well, you just gave very succinct advice, and that could be like a little punch in the nose

Kelli (08:43) Here's another thing. What if you have a friend, you have a relationship, you look up to them. You think of them as a mentor and you want to formalize it. Maybe you go to lunch and you say you're very successful. I think you have a lot to share. We're good friends. We have a good relationship. What do you think about being my mentor and what if they look at you and say, I really value our friendship and I don't want to do anything that affects that

Kelli (09:11) So I think maybe another mentor would be better suited for you

Dave (09:15) I think that exact scenario happens a lot. I also think that we use that as one of the crutches of not asking people because you're worried about their response,

Kelli (09:26) Because that's kind of a lose lose

Dave (09:28) You bet. So before we go on, do we all agree that mentoring is generally a good thing and it should be more prolific

Kelli (09:36) Absolutely

Dave (09:37) And I think that that is something 99% of people would really like to be able to take advantage of at some point in their life during some situation or on a continual basis on a long term basis

Kelli (09:52) Isn't that therapy?

Dave (09:55) You said something to me once that I thought was really funny, and I can't remember exactly what it was, but it relates. It's about the person with no filter,

Kelli (10:02) It's a personal pet peeve of mine that sometimes people say to you, oh, I'm just going to tell you how it is because I have no filter. But in reality, having no filter really is just being an asshole, right? And rude - a rude asshole

Dave (10:19) You're choosing to be an asshole. It's not because you have no filter

Kelli (10:23) Thanks for the warning

Dave (10:25) I taught A&P for years. There's no asshole filter that is installed or not installed

Kelli (10:31) Right. And by the way, thanks for the heads up. The warning that here it comes. Hey, I have no filter. Here comes my asshole rude comment. 

Dave (10:41) Okay. So let's talk about the role of the mentor and the mentoring. And I think that if we define the roles, I think we make it a little bit easier to create the ideal situation

Kelli (10:51) Sounds good

Dave (10:51) So first you should know what you want to get out of the conversation, break it down into conversations, not into mentoring. So in other words, just don't go out there and say, I'm looking for a mentor because I just need general help. You need to do some work first. You need to sit back and say to yourself, what do I need some help on examples? Like we said earlier, I'd like to learn to be a better listener because I just feel I may not be doing that well or I've gotten clues or tells from other people that I'm not doing that well, and I really don't want to be judged like that because I think I am a good listener, or I would appreciate advice on how to prepare for a leadership position

Dave (11:28) Give me some advice on what you would look for in a leader so that I can take that advice and try to incorporate it into my daily routine that I can learn more about. It

Kelli (11:39) That seems like more of a formal mentorship relationship, as opposed to a go to person that if you have just a situation or a topic that you want to get more information about, you go to them and you ask them

Dave (11:53) So after you define your goals, whether it's a formal type goal where it takes a while in order to achieve the goal, and you want somebody to help you go through that entire process or if it's that quick thing, how can I listen better? First things first, somebody needs to say, let's be honest about honesty

Kelli (12:13) That's so important. If you're trying to work on something, you need to be able to take the advice from an outside perspective. Remember, you have the same goal. This person is trying to help you. You're asking for their help, listen to them

Dave (12:27) Even with your open mind, it is going to be hard to listen to sometimes, especially when you start talking about those personality trait issues that you're worried about, or you may have somebody point out a personality trait to you that is unbecoming. And at that point in time, you take offense, you recoil, you withdraw

Kelli (12:47) You need to have a talk with yourself first before you have a talk with your mentor and you have to tell yourself, I may hear things that kind of rub me the wrong way, that I don't like to hear. But guess what? I'm going to keep my mind open and I'm going to listen to their advice. And if nothing else, I'm going to process it for a bit of time. That is what I went to them for, their perspective

Dave (13:10) It's basically the no hard feelings contract

Kelli (13:13) I love that

Dave (13:14) Say those words

Kelli (13:15) Yes

Dave (13:16) Hey, we need a no hard feelings contract here, and I want to emphasize again, unless you're going into a long term agreement with somebody and I will talk about mentoring agreements in a minute. Like there are such things as mentoring agreements. If you're going into something short term where you're just looking for advice and you want somebody to give you that advice very specifically, know what you're looking for. Don't come up with this diatribe of, well, I'm trying to do this, and this is affecting me and I don't know what I'm going to do

Dave (13:52) I can't get up in the morning anymore, but that's not looking for a mentor that's looking for a friend

Kelli (13:58) And you know the mentor can't read your mind. You need to know what you're looking for going into it

Dave (14:04) Don't just vomit out all of your problems and say, can you help me pick a problem and work on it? So I said earlier about the mentoring agreement. Literally, if you Google mentoring agreements, you're going to find them out there. I think that they're interesting and they're great guidance. But I think the two things that you need to establish very early on is what is exactly the goal you're looking for. And how do we not have hard feelings? So here are a few suggestions on how to get a conversation started about mentoring

Dave (14:37) Hey, do you have a minute for a personal question

Kelli (14:40) Yes

Dave (14:40) If you have some time, I'd appreciate some advice from you on fill in the blank. And here's a suggested way that the mentor can respond

Kelli (14:50) I think I'd like to help, but I'm always concerned that advice is taken in the right context and that nobody's feelings get hurt. Do you agree with that?

Dave (14:58) That's great, because now you've got the conversation started with the two key elements right out there. Yeah, I have something I want to talk about. And here's our no hard feelings contract. Yes, we established it right up front

Kelli (15:11) Yeah, I love that. And how do you say no without hurting somebody's feelings

Dave (15:15) Try this. Thanks for asking, but I kind of feel somebody else may be more suited to help you. I really just don't feel comfortable giving friends career advice, but maybe together we can find somebody

Kelli (15:26) I think that's a great response, because the person is putting it out there that they value your friendship and they don't want to do anything to jeopardize that, but they're willing to help, maybe find somebody else to help you. So, Dave, have you asked someone to be your mentor in the past?

Dave (15:44) Oh, you bet. And I have used it extensively over my career

Kelli (15:49) Which route did you go? Did you go to a trusted colleague that you looked up to? Or was this just a friend that you informally said, hey, can you help me with something?

Dave (16:00) So I've done this a number of different ways. We did a whole podcast episode on some of the best mentoring advice that I've ever gotten in the world, and that's the Iacocca episode. So I've sourced mentoring in a number of different ways over my career, and sometimes I can look back and say I was just not ready. I just didn't have my mind, right? I'm going to conquer the world. I know all the answers. I don't need any help. When you're in that kind of frame of mind, and I was for a long period of time, mentoring will not work

Kelli (16:29) No, your mind is closed, and you're not open to hearing what anybody else really has to say. You've got all the answers

Dave (16:35) You're just an asshole. You're done

Kelli (16:38) But eventually you came around

Dave (16:40) Sometimes it takes years for you to say to yourself, I'm a dick, and I got to learn to not be a dick anymore, right? It took time. Hopefully it takes people less time than it took me, because I don't really feel like I'm a dick today anymore. I feel like I'm very confident. I know what the boundaries are, and it's because I've had people say to me and I've been accepting of it. Have them say to me, hey, listen, you might want to do X, Y or Z a little bit differently, and I will now sit back and reflect and say, if that's the impression I'm giving, I don't want that to be the impression I'm giving, and then I will go selfhelp

Dave (17:18) Some people want to actually hear somebody say, do this, then do that and you'll be better, not me. I wanted to hear somebody just say, hey, you're being a dick

Kelli (17:30) You know, a lot of that could be just professional maturity. When you're early on in your career, you may have some success muscles, right? A little bit of success. I'm doing okay. I don't need to hear your bullshit, right

Dave (17:44) Yes

Kelli (17:44) But eventually you open up your mind and you realize I can learn a lot from other people who have been in my shoes

Dave (17:51) And I think that was an inflection point for me when I started to find other people that were experiencing the same problems and the same challenges. Group conversation did it really well for me, which brings us to another part of this program of mentoring. There are these executive programs out there, and there are businesses out there that are all about mentoring for a fee where people with a lot of experience join the program and then they're paid through the program to be your mentor

Kelli (18:21) So that may be great for people who don't want to go to a friend or someone they have a relationship with. If they're that person that actually would benefit from not having a relationship, maybe they would take advice more freely and openly from someone who they don't know

Dave (18:37) It's easy to fire that person if you don't like them. It's not really easy to fire your friend

Kelli (18:44) So, Dave, I'm sure that people have come to you over your career because you have so many experiences and knowledge to share and ask you to be a mentor. How has that worked out?

Dave (18:54) I love it, and I love it because I feel like I'm paying back because in reality, if I look over my career, so many people have helped me. Whether I want to admit it or not, people helped you

Kelli (19:04) You're helping other people. Hopefully those people go on and help other people as well

Dave (19:08) Exactly. And that's why I love to do it. And that's why I really think that companies should have mentoring programs in place that they've actually thought about, not just informally say hey, if you want to mentor somebody, here's the Slack channel. That's just not going to work. I think that HR can put together good mentoring programs with purposes that follow the law that allow employees at different levels of the organization to interact for guidance. It's all about succession planning in some of the organizations that are doing mentoring because they know that people are going to be leaving jobs and moving on

Dave (19:43) If they can get subordinates in those positions to be mentored, they are continuing their investment in the employee as they climb the corporate ladder

Kelli (19:51) Sure, it could be part of their professional development journey. So what did we talk about today? Mentoring is needed and wanted. It's just awkward as hell and there are no ground rules, so we made some up for you

Dave (20:05) Mentoring can be enormously helpful and gratifying. You just need to make sure that you do it right so it doesn't blow up in your face. Maybe what we just did here was mentoring. Would you be mine ?if we ever sing that again

Kelli (20:20) I'm picturing you in a sweater, tie your shoes, hang up your coat

Dave (20:28) Hey, I bet you've got some ideas as well on mentoring and we'd love to hear them. All you have to do is head over to myjobhereisdone.com and leave it in the comments and we'll likely talk about it on another show

Kelli (20:38) Thanks for listening today. Share the fun and tell a friend about us. Just one. We'd appreciate any five star reviews and comments if you'd like what you're hearing

Dave (20:47) Hey, don't go yet. It's time for

Chuck Fresh (20:49) Buzzword Bingo

Kelli (20:53) Dave. Practice using content is King in a sentence that has nothing to do with business

Dave (21:01) I speak to my people from high on this hilltop. Me Julius Aristotle Content. Thanks you for your vote of confidence. I will be fair and compassionate because Content is King

Kelli (21:17) I said content not content

Dave (21:20) Off with your head

Dave and Kelli singing (21:21) Won't you be my mentor

Chuck Fresh (21:24) I'm the announcer guy and I sound as good as the story you just listened to. My job here is done as a podcast production of 2PointOh LLC. Thank you and your awesome ears for listening. Want to get involved? Have your own special story to share. Tell us all about it and you might get some airtime, just like me. Browse over to myjobhereisdone.com squish that all together into one word and look for the My Story link until next time my job here is done