Yikes! It's Time for Your Personality Test

"Yikes! It's Time for your Personality Test"

Transcript (for general use only – machine-generated and it may not be accurate)

Dave  [00:00] Hi. I'm Dave , and I'm a strong D, and I'm proud of it. Kelli 's over there. She's a lightweight DPGK.

Kelli  [00:10] And I'm an ENT J, and I have more letters than you, so that's better.

Dave  [00:14] BullShit. You're incompatible with me, and this will never work.

Kelli  [00:18] I can adapt to anything, including your ridiculousness.

Dave  [00:23] Word!  All of this stuff is about the ever growing popularity of personality tests, which I think have a place in our lives.

Kelli  [00:30] But not all of the time. Did you hear about our friend Emily? She just got red lighted.

Intro [00:36] Hi, I'm Dave , and I'm Kelli . And this is my job here is done. If you really want that next promotion or you're a rising star entrepreneur, we have some stories to tell that will absolutely help you. I've been starting and running businesses all my life. And I've worked for the man like a dog for decades. Together we'll share stories, ideas and notions that will help you absolutely sore past that cruiser sitting next to you. And if you're grinding forward with your growing business, we know where the landmines are. Let's find them. Hey, it's only about 20 minutes. What do you have to lose? Nothing ... or everything.  Thanks for joining us today.

Dave  [01:26] I'm Dave .

Kelli  [01:26] and I'm Kelli .

Dave  [01:27] And welcome to the podcast. Before we get started, just a quick reminder that you can learn about the podcast, listen to all of the previous episodes and interact with us at our website. Myjobhereisdone. com.

Kelli  [01:40] This is the one about personality tests. Many employers use them to determine if you're a good fit for a company and employees, or really anyone, can take them for their own personal growth.

Dave  [01:53] I like the idea of a personality test, but I don't like the idea of determining if you're a good fit for the company. I think there are problems there.

Kelli  [02:05] There could be.

Dave  [02:07] So, Kelli , have you ever taken a personality test.

Kelli  [02:10] As a matter of fact, I've taken quite a few.

Dave  [02:14] Well, I took an Ink Blot test once, an online Ink Blot test, and I am 57% normal, and they say that makes me quite unique.

Kelli  [02:23] I would agree with that.

Dave  [02:24] You'd agree that I'm quite unique or that I'm 57% normal.

Kelli  [02:29] Yes.

Kelli  [02:30] So the history of the personality tests, they actually started in the early 1900s with the Ink Blot test. Remember that one? The one where you are sort of normal.

Dave  [02:40] Yeah. I saw a bat and it told me I needed to see a frigging butterfly.

Kelli  [02:46] Right. I think everybody has that image in their brain, but that's kind of where the personality tests originated from.

Dave  [02:54] Personality tests are not foolproof. They're kind of like a polygraph. 

Kelli  [02:58] The personality tests rely on you answering honestly to get accurate results.

Dave  [03:04] I'm still struggling with the word accurate when it comes to these personality tests because people will, and I'm guilty of it myself, will change their answers to anticipate how the test is going to present their profile to somebody.

Kelli  [03:17] So I guess my point is if you don't answer honestly, then you're misrepresenting yourself through the test.

Dave  [03:25] Okay? Or you're trying to represent yourself in the way that you want somebody to see you. I don't know if that has really anything to do with honesty and accuracy. I think that's just how people react.

Kelli  [03:36] But if you're not honest, then you're misrepresenting. That's my point.

Dave  [03:39] But my point is that you may want to purposely misrepresent.

Kelli  [03:44] Okay, let's continue talking about this, and at the end, we'll say that's all, folks, thanks for joining us today on this enlightening conversation about honesty and accuracy versus misrepresentation.  Have a great day.

Dave  [03:59] The history goes deeper than just the Ink Blot test. There are a lot of these personality tests that have survived the test of time.

Kelli  [04:08] And, you know, Dave , these tests are very popular. This is a multi billion dollar industry that grows by, like, 15% a year. And at this time there are over 2000 different tests available.

Dave  [04:22] I still think that when you're looking at an industry that has 2000 examples of a test for personality profiles, that all can just be a little bit different, they're not wildly different, that this is now a marketing game.

Kelli  [04:37] I think there's different buckets of personality tests. I don't think there's 2000 of the same kind. However, I think they all basically have the same goal when it boils down to it.

Dave  [04:47] So what is an example of a very popular test.

Kelli  [04:50] The most popular personality test worldwide is the MBTI, and in fact, they didn't even look at it as a test, which is why they call it an indicator, not a test. And it's meant to indicate the type of personality you were born with and maintained through your entire life. More than 2 million people take the Myers Briggs test every year. It's used in 26 countries to assess employees, students, soldiers, even potential marriage partners. 

Dave  [05:21] Interesting - arranged marriages.  Instead of the families arranging the marriage, all the kids go off and take a Myers Briggs, and when they pop out of the room, it's like speed dating. All the ENTJs go over to all the KDFB.

Kelli  [05:39] You joke about it. But who knows? These tests are widely used. So they're also used by Fortune 500 companies and universities. And then at a lot of self improvement seminars and wellness retreat type activities.

Dave  [05:53] And that's where I really think they belong. There's a place where they don't belong. And I'm going to call this out because Myers Briggs also called this out. The company states that it is absolutely not to be used for employment purposes. They won't even sell the product. And if they find that you're using the product for employment purposes, they'll pull your license. And I think as a result of the most popular test not entering that marketplace, I think it left the door open for a lot of companies to come out with their own four letter or three letter or colored test.

Kelli  [06:25] Absolutely.

Dave  [06:26] And that's where we get the 2000 out there all Vying for that type of competition.

Kelli  [06:31] The Myers Briggs test is really for personal use and growth and development. It's not geared towards employers using it to screen potential employees.

Dave  [06:43] Now, the whole idea of all of these tests is to provide some sort of a summary judgment on your personality.

Kelli  [06:50] Right.

Dave  [06:50] And if done right, it has proven over time that these tests are fairly accurate.

Kelli  [06:56] And if you're taking a test just for your own use, it's kind of fun.

Dave  [07:00] So Kelli  and I did that for this episode. We both took an authorized version of the MBTI or the Myers Briggs Type Indicator test, and we'll talk about our results here in a minute.

Kelli  [07:11] So let's talk about what the letters mean on the Myers Briggs test.

Dave  [07:15] Okay.

Kelli  [07:15] I'm an ENTJ, which stands for extrovert versus introvert, intuitive versus sensing.

Dave  [07:23] Oh, that would be like an s.

Kelli  [07:25] That would be an s, thinking the T is thinking versus feeling and judging versus perceiving. So ENTJ.

Dave  [07:34] So, Kelli , do you think that that test was accurate when you looked at the results and you read the profile.

Kelli  [07:39] I actually do. I did answer all the questions accurately, honestly, whether they seemed complimentary or not. And I think it was a good representation of my personality. And with the MBTI, you answer a bunch of questions and then you tally up and sometimes it can be close. So you may have 15 points in the extrovert category and 14 in the introvert, but mine were strongly in each of the categories that reported out for me. So I was like, overwhelmingly eE overwhelmingly N. There was no question.

Kelli  [08:21] Overwhelmingly judging. Don't be so judgey about the judging because judging doesn't sound like what it really is. It's more about planning and organizing and not being as spontaneous, especially towards your work environment. That's what the judging is.

Dave  [08:43] Okay. So after you took the test and you tallied everything up and you came up with your numbers, you must have had some sort of a summary that you could read that gave you some indication about how the test profiled you.

Kelli  [08:54] So at the end of the assessment, they list characteristics frequently associated with each type.

Dave  [08:59] So you are an ENTJ. What does it say for you.

Kelli  [09:03] It says, I'm frank, decisive. Assume leadership readily, quickly see illogical and inefficient procedures and policies, develop and implement comprehensive systems to solve organizational problems. Enjoy long term planning and goal setting, usually well informed, well read, enjoy expanding their own knowledge and passing it on to others, forceful in presenting their ideas. Oh, well, some of it does not sound super complimentary, but it is relatively accurate.

Dave  [09:35] When I took the test, I was an ENTP. So an extrovert which makes sense. And you' don't need a test to be able to tell that I'm an extrovert, intuitive ,thinking. So Kelli  and I are the same.

Kelli  [09:50] All three of those are the same as me.

Dave  [09:52] But instead of judging like Kelli  is a major judger, I am perceiving.

Kelli  [10:00] Yes, the explanation is people who prefer perceiving tend to like a flexible and spontaneous approach to life and prefer to keep their options open, as opposed to judging who prefer a plan and organized approach to life and prefer to have things settled.

Dave  [10:18] And I can tell you that knowing each other for a long time, we can both agree on those first three E, the N and the T and Kelli  and I are very different when it comes to the last one, the J for Kelli  and the P for me. So the whole idea of this exercise was, did the test do what the test said it was going to do? Will it accurately represent you and do you feel you were accurately represented by the assessment or the test? And for me, it worked.

Kelli  [10:46] Me too.

Dave  [10:47] I've also taken the Disc profile. That's another very popular one. And there are many, many versions of that. Disc is an acronym for the four personality profiles described in that model. Dominance, influence, steadiness and conscientiousness. And you pick one. You're a strong something. And I was a strong D, and I feel that that's also very accurate.

Kelli  [11:09] If you feel the results are accurate, then why worry about taking the test?

Dave  [11:15] Well, I think that in some cases you shouldn't worry about taking the test. And in some cases you should. And in the case that you should worry, it's in the employment screening process.

Kelli  [11:26] When those tests are used for the screening process for employment, that's no longer for your own personal growth or even entertainment. Oh, yes, that sounds just like me. Now you're on the defensive. Now is the time when you're thinking, how do they want me to respond to this? If I'm honest about X, Y or Z, I may seem like I wouldn't fit in with the team. So maybe I need to rethink how to answer that question.

Dave  [11:53] Sure. So here's a great example of that. Here's a question from a personality test. We're not going to disclose which one it is, but it's popular. How long does it take you to calm down once you've been angry? Now let's just analyze that for a second. If you take that test at home and you're being honest, you may say it takes me a couple of hours to calm down, but you're very much in control. There's nothing about that answer to that question that makes you a defective human being in any way, shape or form because you've learned to work that into your routine, right.

Kelli  [12:27] Yes. And the results are coming to you, not anybody else.

Dave  [12:31] Exactly. Now answer that question in the setting of a job interview. What are you going to say.

Kelli  [12:38] If you were asked that question during the interview process, you would answer it completely differently than if you were taking a test for your own personal use.

Dave  [12:47] Absolutely. And that's where the flaw is in this. It's not a flaw in the test, necessarily. It's a flaw in the administration and purpose of the test.

Kelli  [12:57] Yes. The purpose of the test. That's exactly correct.

Dave  [12:59] They're full of trick questions that make you think that you need to concoct an answer. And some of the questions are just weird. Here's another one. How do you sleep? The answers are on your stomach, on your back, on your left side, on your right side.

Kelli  [13:18] What does that have anything to do with your employment opportunity or even your personal use? Who cares how you sleep.

Dave  [13:27] There's obviously some sort of an analysis that is made by somebody, a machine or the question was asked to a million people and people sleep on their stomach or happier in the morning. I have no idea.

Kelli  [13:41] Right. Well, the tests that I have taken are all tied in with emotional intelligence and that part of your personality and not this weird How do you sleep kind of question.

Dave  [13:53] So do you think this is a good question, Are you generally optimistic?

Kelli  [13:57] Do I think that's a good question?

Dave  [13:58] Yeah.

Kelli  [13:59] I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

Dave  [14:01] Are there people out there that are not generally optimistic?

Kelli  [14:04] Sure.

Dave  [14:04] Yeah. So if you were taking a test with that question at home for your own personal use or in an environment that didn't rely on passing something and you weren't an optimistic person, you would probably say no. Would you ever take a test for an employer where you told that employer either verbally or on a test that you were not an optimistic person.

Kelli  [14:30] I certainly would not.

Dave  [14:31] I would not either.

Kelli  [14:32] And I can't imagine a lot of people would. But here's the thing.

Dave  [14:35] Red light, red light. Red light.

Kelli  [14:39] Why are you saying red light.

Dave  [14:40] Red light? Because it's a common term. I didn't know this, when you fail one of these tests.

Kelli  [14:46] Is that a pass fail thing?

Dave  [14:47] It's often a pass fail thing. It is known as being red lighted, and I think it comes from a test, and I'm not sure which one it is. And actually, I don't care. That provides the answer in a color scale. And if you are in the red area.

Kelli  [15:03] I get it like a stop light. You've got green for go, yellow for caution and red for thanks, but no thanks.

Dave  [15:11] No soup for you.

Kelli  [15:12] No soup for you.

Dave  [15:13] So red lighting or being red lighted is an indication to you that the test disqualified you. And here's the rub. Some places will actually say to you, I'm sorry you can't move on in the interview because you didn't pass the personality test.

Kelli  [15:30] We don't feel like you'll be a good fit for the team because you sleep on your side. Yes. That's weird. So let's talk about some of the good ways we can use personality tests. Okay. So there's a tool called ESCI E-S-C-I. And that stands for Emotional and Social Competency Inventory. And this test is all about the four clusters of emotional intelligence which are self awareness, self management, social awareness, and relationship management.

Dave  [16:01] And from what I understand, this is done in a 360 format, so it's circulated amongst a bunch of people. It's just not you taking the test.

Kelli  [16:08] That's right. You complete the assessment, and then you have other people complete the assessment as well. People who know you in different ways, such as your manager, your peers, people, you lead, family. You have different relationships and ways you interact with these people. So this provides a good 360 view of you.

Dave  [16:30] And then everything gets aggregated something scores the test or provides a feedback mechanism. And then where does that test go to.

Kelli  [16:38] So then the results go to the individual, of course. And then in some instances, the results also go to a reviewer who can sit down with the individual, talk about where strengths lie or areas for improvement and help the individual understand the results of the test.

Dave  [16:54] That is so different than the canned profile test, which are one way.  You take the test and you never know the answers, right.

Kelli  [17:02] That's what I was referring to when I said some tests are actually for your personal growth and development, and you can get a lot out of them. You learn about yourself. But you know, the old saying, perception is reality. Sometimes you find that when you look at your results, you think to yourself, oh, I always feel very nervous in front of a crowd. And then there may be a question that is pointed towards that where people that you work with say, they're such a good public speaker. So perception is reality.

Kelli  [17:31] You may be very nervous doing that but people aren't seeing it, and they think you're a great public speaker.

Dave  [17:36] So maybe that goes toward a little imposter syndrome.

Kelli  [17:39] Absolutely.

Dave  [17:41] I would then refer back to our Poser episode for you to learn a little bit more on impostor syndrome.

Kelli  [17:48] Good plug

Dave  [17:52] I'm getting good at this.  OK. So that really does sound to me like the proper use of this. And I'm going to call it profiling because it is profiling, but you're doing it in a good way, and you're using it in order to help.

Kelli  [18:04] Exactly. You're just learning about yourself with the goal of self improvement. Why lie to yourself.

Dave  [18:10] The bad is when these tests are used in employment profiling, they lead to possible discrimination in myriad ways.

Kelli  [18:19] You know, Dave , we watched a documentary on CNN called Persona.

Dave  [18:23] It was great.

Kelli  [18:23] One of the employers who used a personality test in screening applicants said, Well, if the applicant fails the test, they wouldn't have been happy to work here anyway.

Dave  [18:34] That's bullshit. The vast majority of people love what they do, regardless of the people they have to work with. It's the managers and leaders that create the anxiety and the tests do not test for that. Now, there may be good ways to use these tests in pre-employment, but be very, very careful. Personality testing has the potential of violating the Americans With Disability Act, tTtle VIIof the Civil Rights Act and the Age Discrimination in Employment Act.  They can ask questions in such a way that the answers reveal medical issues, including some mental health issues.

Dave  [19:14] And I know you're saying, okay, well, I don't want anybody with mental health issues in my organization.

Kelli  [19:18] They're already there, and that's discrimination by that.

Dave  [19:21] And that's discrimination you would never say in an interview. do you have any mental health issues that you'd like to disclose to me.

Kelli  [19:28] Yeah, right.

Dave  [19:29] But if the test comes back and basically says to you that through a series of questions, and in a second, I'll tell you about something that's even scarier. We've determined that this person could be emotionally unstable or you derive that from the results.

Kelli  [19:44] And, you know, FYI, here's an interesting thing. You can actually Google how to sway a personality test or how to pass a personality test.

Dave  [19:54] Kelli 's, right. And more so you can buy courses that will help you sway the standard personality tests that are out there. Now, here's something that's even scarier. There are new tests now that are being developed that use artificial intelligence and machine learning with a camera, and you answer questions with a camera looking at you and what the camera is doing while you're answering the questions. Is it's looking for eye motion? It's looking for facial changes, it's looking for reaction. And some Brainiac has already determined that if you have a facial reaction to a question, they've determined what that means to the real answer of the question.

Dave  [20:42] And they're combing this stuff together now, and it's getting really fucking weird.

Kelli  [20:48] This sounds to me more like interrogation of a suspect than part of an interview process.

Dave  [20:54] And my worry here is not in personality tests because I believe in personality tests. I've had a few we've talked about it already. We just did one recently, and we agree with the results. And it's great to be able to do a self assessment. It's great to be able to talk to your partner or your family or somebody who cares about you and have them point out, you know, you could do this a little bit better, and then you can react to that appropriately. But when you're guessing at what the employer wants, I think this is really going down a slippery slope.

Dave  [21:27] And then one last thing, I'm very worried about the Privacy concerns. Are there any reasons why you should be concerned about the storage of those data that was collected during that process? Could this data find its way into a data Lake someplace where it could be searched or cataloged.

Kelli  [21:46] That's a scary thought. That's a really scary thought.

Dave  [21:49] So to employers and especially my plea to my friends in HR. Don't jump on this just because of the hype you hear. Make sure that you take the time to fully investigate everything around these tests before you do an implementation. Make sure you know what you want out of these tests and make sure that you discuss it with legal counsel first because it's not without risk. For the you's and me's of the world, Go take one of these things. They're awesome. Go find yourself one of the good ones.

Dave  [22:21] Maybe you have to invest a couple of bucks in order to get one done. Do it. It's a great way to understand you a little bit better.

Kelli  [22:28] We'll put some links in the notes as well. There are thousands of personality tests out there, some for your own personal use. Just in case you don't know how charming you really are. Do you have a personality test story to share? Go to myjobhereisdone.com and click on the My Story link to record your five minute story in your own voice. 

Dave  [22:53] And you never know, with your permission, We may use that story here on an upcoming episode.

Kelli  [22:56] We'd love to hear it.

Dave  [22:57] Share the fun and tell just one friend about us. Please don't forget to check out our website. It's easy. My job here is done all one word dot com or on Twitter, at myjobpodcast.

Kelli  [23:10] And now it's time for.

Chuck Fresh [23:12] Buzzword Bingo.

Dave  [23:14] first, let me just say this. If you've listened to these episodes and you've been thinking to yourself, this buzzword bingo is pretty stupid. It's supposed to be. It's not supposed to be funny. Buzzwords are not funny.

Kelli  [23:28] So Dave , practice using circle back in a sentence that has nothing to do with business.

Dave  [23:37] We might have a problem here. You see, I was laying chickie back there in the getaway car whilst two guys were in there robbin' the joint. I think I dropped my wallet in the street. Maybe we should circle back and look for it?

Kelli  [23:52] Laying chickie???

Dave  [23:55] Google it.

Chuck Fresh [23:58] I'm the announcer guy and I sound as good as the story you just listened to. My job here is done is a podcast production of 2PointOh LLC. Thank you and your awesome ears for listening. Want to get involved? Have your own special story to share? Tell us all about it and you might get some airtime just like me. Browse over to MyJobHereIsDone.com  yeah. Squish that all together into one word and look for the My Story link until next time my job here is done.